If I labor all day shoveling dirt, burning thousands of calories and sweating, with my muscles aching, should I get paid more than others who don’t work as hard?
Comment with the orange button, and I will answer this tomorrow.
William Lindberg
4 years ago
I believe you should always do the task assigned, to the best of your capabilities, and look for ways to improve both efficiency and results.
Bob ligmanowski
4 years ago
I learned from you Larry…I was doing the “wrong work” and was working very hard spinning my wheels. Your “highest calling” book opened my eyes! I was once told “working your fingers to the bones will only get you boney fingers” it’s true. That was from a 87 yr old contractor friend of mine. Why did it take me so long to figure it out? Still working on that …hard to teach a old dog new tricks, but I’m conditioning myself 🙂
G D Martin
4 years ago
I used to believe that the harder I worked the better it made me. It really was not payed any more though. The older i get the more frustrated I become. At 41 I now believe the earlier, hard working years where the character building years.
I also belive that to make more money, I will need to take on more responsibilities.
I am still figuring out how exactly this is supposed to look for me personally.
That does not answer your question though.
Care to let me in on the secret?
Paul J. Ney
4 years ago
I’m not sure about getting paid more. I think you you pay someone a good wage for an honest days work. As far as the person not working as hard I believe if a manager or foreman is doing their job well then this person not working as hard or diligently should have been coached and or trained more. I believe if you are doing the same jobs for the same pay then it’s an equal playing field. Everyone must carry their on weight. Sales is a different story when commissions are involved. Some people have more of a drive to push themselves more to make more money.
Jim Lahl
4 years ago
You answered this with your post on “Income inequality” the other day: If the others you referred to are assigned the same task as you and aren’t “busting it” as you are, then YES! You should be paid more as you are bringing more value. (But someone’s job being more physical than someone else’s is not a sole indicator of the value it brings to the company.)
Anthony Rosato Minchella
4 years ago
Yes, if the value he provides to whomever he is shoveling the dirt for, justifies it.
Mike Mitchell
4 years ago
The ability and willingness to work hard is a great attribute. However it is by no means the primary driver in determining what one is paid. The value of one’s skill set (impact of what they do on the enterprise) and how well they do that, how hard they work at that, and how many other people are capable of doing that job, influence the salary one earns.
Bryan Armstrong
4 years ago
Work smarter not harder. I think back to one of the things you said last year at the Think Daily Live session. If you want to earn $250,000 per year are you doing the $20 per hour work or the $100 per hour work….
Chuck
4 years ago
Very interesting, in the context of physical labor and then mentioned your knee problem, along with the fact you recently talked of the value of income inequality
Rick Pilarski
4 years ago
No
Rick Pilarski
4 years ago
Unless you’re working next to people who are not working as hard as you then I would answer yes!
Willis Ponds
4 years ago
You should get paid as much as you agreed to get paid before you started digging. If someone is helping you dig and they are digging as much then “fairness” would say they shouldn’t be paid as much. However, both should get paid the agreed-upon price from the beginning. The reward for the hard worker comes later as someone notices the hard work and rewards with higher pay or a better position in the future. We work hard now in hopes of future gains.
W. Mele Orendorf
4 years ago
Larry, the basis of your question lies in something management has been dealing with for a long time. Do I reward based on effort or do I reward an employee based on results and accomplishments. I have to see a sales compensation plan, for example, that reward a sales person for the number of calls made or the number of proposals delivered. As a responsible manager the focus needs to be on results.
Willis Ponds
4 years ago
(*corrected typo in previous comment)
You should get paid as much as you agreed to get paid before you started digging. If someone is helping you dig and they aren’t digging as much then “fairness” would say they shouldn’t be paid as much. However, both should get paid the agreed-upon price from the beginning. The reward for the hard worker comes later as someone notices the hard work and rewards with higher pay or a better position in the future. We work hard now in hopes of future gains.
Michael Carrafa III
4 years ago
Maybe, it’s not just hard work but the value that results from that work.
Jim Hodson
4 years ago
I’ve pondered this in a different context for many years and is extremely relevant today with the large number of unemployed thru no fault of their own. It’s this. If one is willing to work at any job for 40 plus hours, regardless of job, should they make enough money to support food shelter and basic medical care for themselves and their immediate family?
Thomas Robert Woodford
4 years ago
If the only benchmark is working hard then no. I could be in an air-conditioned rented excavator in total comfort and move a hundred thousand times the dirt. Considering the cost of the machine and my time relative to the amount of dirt moved I might earn thousand(s) time more and never break a sweat because I checked the situation did the math and realized renting the machine was the way to go. After all the value was in getting the dirt moved, not sweating right? (then you can take the earnings and go to the gym for exercise)
Jack Birtwell
4 years ago
working hard physically rarely if ever has a higher value than working productively and creating the opportunity and setting the direction for those who work hard physically.
Greg Prickett
4 years ago
If the person who shovels dirt all day does a poor job what do they lose? If you do a job poorly what is your potential loss? Business owners are at risk of loss for factors beyond their control, like COVID-19.
S.H. Cols
4 years ago
I had to re-read it. Should a person be paid more for working harder? If that means being more productive, then perhaps yes. I won’t pay a kid more to cut my acre of grass with a push-mower than a kid that shows up with a riding mower! Payment represents VALUE (some blend of quantity and quality) received by the payer (employer, the customer of your labor). Effort is important, but not the determinant of compensation.
Jim Baker
4 years ago
Not if you shovel dirt all day in the wrong spot. Not if you shovel dirt because you do not know how to operate the available track hoe. Etc… Pay for results.
Tim Garrett
4 years ago
Yes you should get paid more if you have a boss that recognizes that you are the hardest working person on the job, unless you are in a union, then it does not matter. Should my friends have gotten the same pay as me when they were home watching cartoons and I was out shinning shoes all day?
anthony marcsisak
4 years ago
Are you digging dirt, or gold?
Russell Dillon
4 years ago
Hard is relative.
Carol Johnson
4 years ago
I suppose this type of thinking implies that you work harder than others, whether physically or mentally straining. This seems purely perceptual.
Tim Funke
4 years ago
In our economic system (nor any economic system that I am aware of) a person does not get compensated for burning calories. We pay based on special skills (can you hit a 100 mph fastball), training (12 years to become a brain surgeon) or the percentage of the population willing to do a certain task (pulling hoses at Gates Rubber means you always have burns all over your arms).
Dave Kase
4 years ago
Work “smarter” not “harder”.
Jose Ubilla
4 years ago
No. The fact that you labor all day is totally up to you. You should always get what you bargained for.
Bob Nickelson
4 years ago
That goes back to the productivity gap. I could shingle a house with a hammer and work my tail off, but if I knew how to use a nail gun…… You know the rest of the story
Frank T-R Braun
4 years ago
You should truly get paid for your knowledge. Different levels of knowledge equal different levels of pay.
Kevin Kelso
4 years ago
I hear you on the knee dr keeping us going
Joel
4 years ago
You should if that is what was agreed upon. A persons pay for any assignment should be a private negotiation between the 2 parties involved: the payer and the worker. If you with your shovel had adequate negotiation skills, and placed yourself in a situation when shovelers are in high demand/short supply, you could get big $$. And vice-versa.
John Swanson
4 years ago
The parable of the workers-Mathew 20-
Phillip
4 years ago
Firstly, I’m glad for you that your knee doctor is “working hard and sweating” for you.
Get paid for what you achieve for the Company.
George White
4 years ago
Hello Larry, I enjoy the thought provoking and words of wisdom emails daily! After a recent event a friend sent this to me. In a similar vein as your question, and yes the repairman gets paid the least.
How many lawyers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Six. One to review the contracts, one to review the insurance, one to get a
release from the power company, one to get a release from the ladder
manufacturer, one to get a release from the property owner and one to hire a
repair man.
Barbara Rainey
4 years ago
Shovel dirt, shovel brain cells, shovel something. If you hurt yourself shoveling so that you’re unable to work the next day, that’s not good either. I’d rather have an employee that’s consistent than a flash in the pan all star one day and a no show the next. Life is a marathon, not a sprint. That doesn’t mean you don’t have to hustle though. But are you being effective? Are you getting things done? Perfect is the enemy of the good. If you’re always busy but not getting anything done, what good is that? I remember a boss who asked me how I was doing and I proceeded to tell him how busy I was. His reply? “Don’t confuse being busy with making money.”
I believe you should always do the task assigned, to the best of your capabilities, and look for ways to improve both efficiency and results.
I learned from you Larry…I was doing the “wrong work” and was working very hard spinning my wheels. Your “highest calling” book opened my eyes! I was once told “working your fingers to the bones will only get you boney fingers” it’s true. That was from a 87 yr old contractor friend of mine. Why did it take me so long to figure it out? Still working on that …hard to teach a old dog new tricks, but I’m conditioning myself 🙂
I used to believe that the harder I worked the better it made me. It really was not payed any more though. The older i get the more frustrated I become. At 41 I now believe the earlier, hard working years where the character building years.
I also belive that to make more money, I will need to take on more responsibilities.
I am still figuring out how exactly this is supposed to look for me personally.
That does not answer your question though.
Care to let me in on the secret?
I’m not sure about getting paid more. I think you you pay someone a good wage for an honest days work. As far as the person not working as hard I believe if a manager or foreman is doing their job well then this person not working as hard or diligently should have been coached and or trained more. I believe if you are doing the same jobs for the same pay then it’s an equal playing field. Everyone must carry their on weight. Sales is a different story when commissions are involved. Some people have more of a drive to push themselves more to make more money.
You answered this with your post on “Income inequality” the other day: If the others you referred to are assigned the same task as you and aren’t “busting it” as you are, then YES! You should be paid more as you are bringing more value. (But someone’s job being more physical than someone else’s is not a sole indicator of the value it brings to the company.)
Yes, if the value he provides to whomever he is shoveling the dirt for, justifies it.
The ability and willingness to work hard is a great attribute. However it is by no means the primary driver in determining what one is paid. The value of one’s skill set (impact of what they do on the enterprise) and how well they do that, how hard they work at that, and how many other people are capable of doing that job, influence the salary one earns.
Work smarter not harder. I think back to one of the things you said last year at the Think Daily Live session. If you want to earn $250,000 per year are you doing the $20 per hour work or the $100 per hour work….
Very interesting, in the context of physical labor and then mentioned your knee problem, along with the fact you recently talked of the value of income inequality
No
Unless you’re working next to people who are not working as hard as you then I would answer yes!
You should get paid as much as you agreed to get paid before you started digging. If someone is helping you dig and they are digging as much then “fairness” would say they shouldn’t be paid as much. However, both should get paid the agreed-upon price from the beginning. The reward for the hard worker comes later as someone notices the hard work and rewards with higher pay or a better position in the future. We work hard now in hopes of future gains.
Larry, the basis of your question lies in something management has been dealing with for a long time. Do I reward based on effort or do I reward an employee based on results and accomplishments. I have to see a sales compensation plan, for example, that reward a sales person for the number of calls made or the number of proposals delivered. As a responsible manager the focus needs to be on results.
(*corrected typo in previous comment)
You should get paid as much as you agreed to get paid before you started digging. If someone is helping you dig and they aren’t digging as much then “fairness” would say they shouldn’t be paid as much. However, both should get paid the agreed-upon price from the beginning. The reward for the hard worker comes later as someone notices the hard work and rewards with higher pay or a better position in the future. We work hard now in hopes of future gains.
Maybe, it’s not just hard work but the value that results from that work.
I’ve pondered this in a different context for many years and is extremely relevant today with the large number of unemployed thru no fault of their own. It’s this. If one is willing to work at any job for 40 plus hours, regardless of job, should they make enough money to support food shelter and basic medical care for themselves and their immediate family?
If the only benchmark is working hard then no. I could be in an air-conditioned rented excavator in total comfort and move a hundred thousand times the dirt. Considering the cost of the machine and my time relative to the amount of dirt moved I might earn thousand(s) time more and never break a sweat because I checked the situation did the math and realized renting the machine was the way to go. After all the value was in getting the dirt moved, not sweating right? (then you can take the earnings and go to the gym for exercise)
working hard physically rarely if ever has a higher value than working productively and creating the opportunity and setting the direction for those who work hard physically.
If the person who shovels dirt all day does a poor job what do they lose? If you do a job poorly what is your potential loss? Business owners are at risk of loss for factors beyond their control, like COVID-19.
I had to re-read it. Should a person be paid more for working harder? If that means being more productive, then perhaps yes. I won’t pay a kid more to cut my acre of grass with a push-mower than a kid that shows up with a riding mower! Payment represents VALUE (some blend of quantity and quality) received by the payer (employer, the customer of your labor). Effort is important, but not the determinant of compensation.
Not if you shovel dirt all day in the wrong spot. Not if you shovel dirt because you do not know how to operate the available track hoe. Etc… Pay for results.
Yes you should get paid more if you have a boss that recognizes that you are the hardest working person on the job, unless you are in a union, then it does not matter. Should my friends have gotten the same pay as me when they were home watching cartoons and I was out shinning shoes all day?
Are you digging dirt, or gold?
Hard is relative.
I suppose this type of thinking implies that you work harder than others, whether physically or mentally straining. This seems purely perceptual.
In our economic system (nor any economic system that I am aware of) a person does not get compensated for burning calories. We pay based on special skills (can you hit a 100 mph fastball), training (12 years to become a brain surgeon) or the percentage of the population willing to do a certain task (pulling hoses at Gates Rubber means you always have burns all over your arms).
Work “smarter” not “harder”.
No. The fact that you labor all day is totally up to you. You should always get what you bargained for.
That goes back to the productivity gap. I could shingle a house with a hammer and work my tail off, but if I knew how to use a nail gun…… You know the rest of the story
You should truly get paid for your knowledge. Different levels of knowledge equal different levels of pay.
I hear you on the knee dr keeping us going
You should if that is what was agreed upon. A persons pay for any assignment should be a private negotiation between the 2 parties involved: the payer and the worker. If you with your shovel had adequate negotiation skills, and placed yourself in a situation when shovelers are in high demand/short supply, you could get big $$. And vice-versa.
The parable of the workers-Mathew 20-
Firstly, I’m glad for you that your knee doctor is “working hard and sweating” for you.
Get paid for what you achieve for the Company.
Hello Larry, I enjoy the thought provoking and words of wisdom emails daily! After a recent event a friend sent this to me. In a similar vein as your question, and yes the repairman gets paid the least.
How many lawyers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Six. One to review the contracts, one to review the insurance, one to get a
release from the power company, one to get a release from the ladder
manufacturer, one to get a release from the property owner and one to hire a
repair man.
Shovel dirt, shovel brain cells, shovel something. If you hurt yourself shoveling so that you’re unable to work the next day, that’s not good either. I’d rather have an employee that’s consistent than a flash in the pan all star one day and a no show the next. Life is a marathon, not a sprint. That doesn’t mean you don’t have to hustle though. But are you being effective? Are you getting things done? Perfect is the enemy of the good. If you’re always busy but not getting anything done, what good is that? I remember a boss who asked me how I was doing and I proceeded to tell him how busy I was. His reply? “Don’t confuse being busy with making money.”